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Guard rail as fence

ahay68979

Posted 8/21/2009 20:58 (#819628)
Subject: Guard rail as fence

Saronville NE

Anybody on here have any of this for fence? If so how do you like it? How does it compare in cost to continous fence panels or suckerrod fence? If its cheaper,and you like it, where is a good place to buy it? TIA eddie

Posted 8/21/2009 21:46 (#819679 - in reply to #819628)
Subject: RE: Guard rail as fence

Got it up all over the place for corrals and windbreaks.  Hang it on rr ties w/ lag screws.  I used to get it for $1/ft.  Now I think it is closer to $2.50/ft.  It is a little more expensive than continuous fence and suckerrod, but 10x as strong.  Cheapest to buy in semi-loads, 90 lbs./rail.  Check with someone like Graham Lumber in KY.  They jockey a lot of it to the Plains straight from construction sites, or just look in the High Plains Journal and call around.  A couple local guys buy truck loads of it, then jockey it out to area farmers.  After you've built with guardrail you won't be using anything else as it goes up extremely easy and is very solid. Ben

Posted 8/21/2009 22:14 (#819704 - in reply to #819679)
Subject: RE: Guard rail as fence

North Mo.

we just put up continous fence 85 per 20 ft. secetion thats a bunch cheaper than guard rail granted rail is stronger. Ben chevdeere

Posted 8/21/2009 22:29 (#819733 - in reply to #819628)
Subject: Re: Guard rail as fence

I use some guard for some holding pens never have used any though for continuous fence. It runs 2.50 dollars a foot around here also for used never have priced new. I accidentally ran into these folks in Louisville at the farm machinery show they are from North Carolina and have new or used. www.livestocksteel.com ahay68979

Posted 8/21/2009 22:33 (#819743 - in reply to #819704)
Subject: RE: Guard rail as fence

Saronville NE

Where did you get the continous panels for that? Here they are almost twice that. wheaties

Posted 8/21/2009 23:30 (#819850 - in reply to #819628)
Subject: Re: Guard rail as fence

We have some guardrail fence. It can be hard on cattle, the back side of the rail is sharp and will cut very easily. The ends are also an issue. Had a calf get head inbetween two rails and basically remove an ear. It is labor intensive to put up as well. In my opinion continuous fence is a better value and better product. Iowadad

Posted 8/22/2009 00:30 (#819919 - in reply to #819628)
Subject: RE: Guard rail as fence

We used some 5 or 6 years ago, I really liked it, if is very strong and very fast and easy to put in, but a little more expensive, also we only put 2 rails on for sucking calves you might need 3. that would really add to the cost. We used some sucker rod this summer, that went pretty good too, but I suspect it will take a little more maintenance. guard rail will give a little shade for cattle to stand in, block some wind in the winter, and leave a lot of snow in the cattle yard.always made me a little nervous if we had to be loading cattle in a thunderstorm also, all that shiney metal seemed like it would be begging to get struck!! eddie

Posted 8/22/2009 00:39 (#819929 - in reply to #819743)
Subject: RE: Guard rail as fence

Big difference in quality and steel guage on continuous fence, another one of those get what you pay for deals. Roy@ranch

Posted 8/22/2009 07:54 (#820021 - in reply to #819628)
Subject: RE: Guard rail as fence

North Cental Mo.

I love the stuff, but it is labor intensive to put up, not bad if you have enough people. I used fir ties and bolted them up. I was leary about the ties, but was told fir wouldn't rot, (go figure). But I can always drive steel down next to them if needed.

Roy Dave-ECIA

Posted 8/22/2009 08:20 (#820049 - in reply to #820021)
Subject: Re: Guard rail as fence

Fir is the key, Canadian ties too. I've been told that the railroads in Canada prefer old growth timbers for ties. Makes them tighter grained, more dense. You can tell it too.

Bought a bundle of ties years back for a small bull pen. Had some other ties mixed in, big difference in weight and big mistake. The lighter ties rotted in something like three years. We've got fir ties around a barn lot that are 25 years old and still solid as a rock.

Also for bolts, we get them from the local REC. Ask the linemen to save the crossarm bolts, nuts, and square washers for you. They are heavily galvanized and should outlast your lifetime.

D GangGreen

Posted 8/22/2009 09:07 (#820108 - in reply to #819679)
Subject: RE: Guard rail as fence

Eastern Iowa

Eastern Iowa

I bought new, DOT reject guardrail just yesterday for 2.69/ft, sales tax included--it was the same price as used. For a bull yard. Nothing else really makes any sense for that application.

It would be cheaper to buy by the truckload, but full loads have well over a mile of guardrail on them, so it amounts to some big $$$$. You save on the sales tax, presumably, but have to carry the interest and cover the freight from Florida where it all comes from.

We cut our own cedar posts with our sawmill, and fasten through the posts with 1/2 inch carriage bolts--much cheaper than the DOT guardrail bolts. Helps keep the cost down.

I will post pictures, as we intend to hang it all today. Converting an old outdoor barn yard with hog fences to an indestructible bullpen.

Edited by GangGreen 8/23/2009 19:20

SouthCentralKansas

Posted 8/22/2009 10:14 (#820197 - in reply to #819628)
Subject: RE: Guard rail as fence

KS

KS

My neighbors have a working facility that uses guardrail and it is nice. I am not sure how long they have had it up, but I would say decades. Ben

Posted 8/22/2009 13:55 (#820392 - in reply to #819929)
Subject: RE: Guard rail as fence

North Mo.

We have a manufacturer 20 miles from us, does fence, gates and hay trailers the dump kind. the panels are not light but I did see heavier at the state fair. Ben eddie

Posted 8/22/2009 13:59 (#820396 - in reply to #820392)
Subject: RE: Guard rail as fence

corbin steel?  Seen an ad for them, was wondering what they had.  I'm interested in some of those big 20' long pipe bunks, where the pipe is split in half and is ~24" wide. Roy@ranch

Posted 8/22/2009 20:54 (#820711 - in reply to #820108)
Subject: RE: Guard rail as fence

North Cental Mo.

DOT guardrail bolts wouldn't work anyway on a wooden post big enough to hold it. We use 5/8 hex head bolts, I don't like carriage next to wood.

Why does it all come from Florida? The last load we got came from Texas, might not have been made there, but that's where it came from. Do you have a lot of good cedars to make posts out of, very few around here., or atleast the kind you can make suitable posts out of.

Roy, North Mo Roy@ranch

Posted 8/22/2009 20:57 (#820715 - in reply to #820396)
Subject: RE: Guard rail as fence

North Cental Mo.

Eddie, I get my pipe bunks fairly locally , 20 miles away. He sells all kinds of oilfield pipe for ponds, basins, you name it. I assume he made these, but I suppose he could be hauling them in and reselling them. BTW I really like them.

Roy North Mo jackND

Posted 8/23/2009 08:55 (#821100 - in reply to #819628)
Subject: RE: Guard rail as fence

We have guard rail in our working alley and like it. The only drawback is the sun is blocked on the east-west lanes and in the right conditions in the winter we'll have a sheet of ice that stays for quite some time. The pipe alleys melt and stay fairly ice free. GangGreen

Posted 8/23/2009 08:59 (#821106 - in reply to #820711)
Subject: RE: Guard rail as fence

Eastern Iowa

Eastern Iowa

It is entirely possible it isn't all coming from Florida, but that's what I was told from one distributor up here in Ioway. I believe THIS is the outfit he's been buying through.

We have lots of native cedar trees through this part of Iowa, and typically just square em up with the mill to get down to the red wood, which is rot resistant. A straight 16 inch diameter tree will typically make a 12" post and an 8" post, 8 feet long, sometimes another. Down your way there is lots of hedge posts--none of them grow in my latitude. Make do with what you've got, I guess.

Edited by GangGreen 8/23/2009 09:04

3015DEERE

Posted 8/25/2009 17:17 (#823997 - in reply to #819628)
Subject: RE: Guard rail as fence

The company is the world’s best used steel bridge for sale supplier. We are your one-stop shop for all needs. Our staff are highly-specialized and will help you find the product you need.

Featured content:
Which carbon steel bridge guardrail is best? GangGreen

Posted 8/26/2009 13:49 (#825141 - in reply to #820108)
Subject: RE: Guard rail as fence (pictures)

Eastern Iowa

Eastern Iowa

Figured out how to resize to make it work, finally!

Third pic shows concrete hog gang slat sections planted on edge as silt filtering fence.

Edited by GangGreen 8/26/2009 13:51

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V_Key

Posted 8/26/2009 22:48 (#825803 - in reply to #819628)
Subject: Re: Guard rail as fence

Gilroy 35 Miles Over the Hill From Santa Cruz

Guardrail Manufactures
http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=guardrail+m... Livestock Steel

Posted 8/16/2010 19:19 (#1318340 - in reply to #819628)
Subject: Re: Guard rail as fence

Howdy,

I read most of this informative forum. I thought I would respond to a few of the comments. Of course, I'm quite biased towards Used Guardrail, but here are some of the benefits:

> We don't sell new anymore. We found the prices just could not keep up with USED. Used is durable, tough and affordable. It drives NEW out of the market.
> Don't waste your time looking for NEW manufacturers. New guardrail is around $5/ft right now. USED will land for +/- $2/ft, and it will last decades.
> Check out our USED POSTS on our website. They might help you with some installations: http://www.livestocksteel.com/products/posts.html

Grabbed this from our Website:
Guardrail Fencing System is the preferred choice for a lifetime installation.

1. LONGEVITY
Owners who choose to install Guardrail do not expect to replace their product again. Heavily Galvanized coatings provide guardrail fence owners with long years of reliable service. Once the basic installation is completed, owners enjoy a reduction in maintenance and upgrade costs. Why waste valuable time, money and resources with the weaker, short-term-fix products which must be replaced again and again? Guardrail stands up to the test of time.

2. CALMING to ANIMALS
Animals are significantly blinded by the coverage of the Livestock Steel Guardrail Fencing System. Animals remain calmer since their perception of activity in the areas beyond the barrier is significantly reduced.

3. CORRUGATED STRENGTH
Guardrail Fencing System uses the powerful strength of corrugation to effectively interlock the legs of the installation into a self-supported fencing system. Impacts are distributed along the run of installation. Owners claim that, due to the system rigidity, Guardrail Fencing Systems will remain in position even after a support post has been completely broken.

4. INCREASED ANIMAL HEALTH
Guardrail Fencing Systems present the presence of a uniform and visible barrier which is clearly present to an animal’s perception. This awareness reduces impacts to the animal and to the Fencing System.

5. NIGHT-TIME VISIBILITY
Guardrail Fencing proves to be a more visible barrier in low light or night-time. The mildly reflective surface of guardrail panel thus reduces the night-time impacts for both the animal and the Fencing System.

6. FAST, EASY INSTALLATION
Guardrail Fencing is pre-cut and drilled which translates into fast, cost-effective installation.

7. WE HAVE THE OPTIONS YOU NEED
Customize products to your specific needs. Choose from:
1. Standard 12.25” width W-Beam –and/OR- 20” Wide Thrie-Beam panel;
2. Choose the length of your panels: 13.5 (Short) or 26’ (Long);
3. Choose from Used and/or New product;
4. On our POSTS: Choose type of the posts
1. Steel or Wood Posts (These only work well when about 300 miles or less from our yard)
2. Choose the length of your posts [approx. 8-15 feet ea.].

8. INCREASE ANIMAL SAFETY
Guardrail Fencing Systems offers less injury and healthier animals. Even in the reduced event of animal contact with the Fencing System, Guardrail’s smooth, mildly humped design provides an ample, gently curved surface, distributing impact over a large surface area, resulting in less injury than other traditional fencing.

9. RECYCLED FOR LIVESTOCK
Livestock Steel Fencing Systems care for our environment: Users who purchase used materials can rightly claim a part in recycling millions of pounds of AMERICAN made materials by choosing this viable resource.

10. THE NINE LIVES OF GUARDRAIL...
Some owners continue to find applications for the same guardrail panel through various installations. If the need for the material comes to an end at a particular location, due to remarkable flexibility as a building material, the guardrail panel is re-used again as fencing or in the hundreds of growing, useful applications being discovered by brilliant users.

11. SMART CUSTOMERS MAKE SMART DECISIONS
Our customers are making great choices by:
1. Being smart with our national non-renewable resources of steel and zinc.
2. investing in our great nation’s agricultural infrastructure with superior, long-lasting, resource-smart materials.
3. investing in multiple-application, re-usable materials.
4. keep prices down for the entire national industry by choosing affordable, efficient products at the best prices on the market… and that’s good for everybody’s business.

12. VERSATILE BUILDING MATERIAL
One of the huge benefits to owners is the amazing flexibility of the Guardrail Fencing System Material. The applications are ever-growing: Windbreaks, Feed Troughs, Feed Bunks, Bail Feeders, Re-Enforcements to Crowd areas, Cut Panel used as Uprights in the fence itself, Gates, Feeders, Etc. The list goes on.

In this economic climate, saving money is of utmost importance. However, when it comes to safety

• How do you economize without sacrificing your employee's wellbeing?
• How can you develop and maintain a great culture of safety while still focusing on the bottom line?

This is a tightrope walk that every safety professional has to manage - even in a good economy. Many of the ways that you can save money are focused on long term goals, rather than short term savings. Short fixes may help meet this month's budget, but will leave you facing the same issues next month, next year, etc... A combination of short and long term solutions should leave you moving in the right direction today, while helping you obtain future goals within budgetary constraints. Here are a few ideas that should point you in the right direction:

1. Keep a Close Eye on the Lifetime Cost of Your Safety Solution

In addition to the purchase price you need to consider the following costs

• maintenance how much time do I need to spend taking care of this product?
• training how much training time is required to use this product?
• usage how much time does it take the worker to use this solution (e.g. setup, tear down)?
• productivity how is the workers efficiency effected by the solution?

 

Option A Inexpensive Harness and Anchor Point. ($)

Purchase the least expensive fix for a fall protection hazard: This usually means an inexpensive penetrating anchor point, a low end harness, and a simple lanyard. You may, depending on your scenario, be able to spend only a couple hundred dollars "fixing" the solution.

However, what is the "lifetime cost"?

• First of all, that penetrating anchor point will need to be installed (time).
• It will also need to be maintained to ensure that leaks don't form at the penetrations (time).
• The lanyard that you purchased may be suitable for that anchor point, but it is a fixed length that will restrict its usability on other/future scenarios - leaving you in a position to have to purchase other solutions in the future (time and money).
• Lastly, that "cheap" harness that you purchased may be OSHA or ANSI compliant, but does it allow the worker to move efficiently? Because there is no elasticity to the harness, the worker may be uncomfortable, have a limited range of motion, and perhaps even wear the harness too loosely - potentially causing injuries that could have been avoided.

In total, you saved money on the initial purchase, but will have these additional costs:

Cost:

• Required daily inspections,
• workers working slowly,
• required maintenance,
• limited re-usability,
• training and retraining,
• greatest risk of injury, and
• high insurance costs.
• There is also a management cost - keeping log books up to date, documenting training, verifying proper use, etc...
• Lastly, these products do not last forever - most have a maximum lifespan of 5 years or until they fail a daily inspection - whichever comes first. Less expensive products typically wear faster than their higher quality counterparts.

Option B Non Penetrating Anchor Point and a High End Harness ($$)

Purchase a "better" fix for a fall protection hazard. This time, you purchase a non-invasive anchor point (one that does not penetrate the roof, steel, or concrete - and can be reused), a rope-grab lifeline (an adjustable lifeline that can keep you from reaching the roofs edge), and a comfortable, mid level harness. This option, depending on your scenario, may be only slightly to significantly more expensive.

However, what is the "lifetime cost"?

• First of all, your anchor point will not need to be maintained - only inspected.
• Your lifeline will give workers tremendous flexibility on the distance they want to be able to move from the anchor point. This will provide flexibility for use in many different scenarios, as well as allowing workers to limit their ability to reach the fall hazard - thus preventing them from ever taking a tumble in the first place.
• The harness will allow for increased comfort and motion. This will translate into a faster worker who has a better range of motion, and will wear the harness tighter (which is safer) - not to mention he/she will be more content complying to your safety standards.

In total, you spent more money, but reduced "lifetime costs".

Cost:

• daily inspections,
• training,
• moderate insurance costs,
• and moderate working speed for employees.
• You will also still have the same management responsibilities as the cheaper solution, but will hopefully not need to spend as much time verifying proper use and encouraging workers to wear equipment properly.

Savings:

• Workers will work faster,
• increased flexibility with other/future sites,
• lower risk of injury, and lower insurance costs.
• Also, workers will be happier and more interested in the safety culture that you are trying to build.

Option C Install a Passive Guardrail Solution ($$$)

Purchase the "best" fix for a fall protection hazard. This time, you purchase a railing system (non-penetrating if possible). Out of pocket costs will probably be highest with this option, but lifetime costs will be lowest. This is by far the safest solution for most scenarios and will take the least amount of thought and energy once installed. This option eliminates the need for daily inspections, training, and worker interaction. Simply put, a worker will not need to think about the fall hazard at all. Let's look at the cost vs. savings for this option:

Cost:

• If you purchase a lower end railing (one that is not galvanized or penetrates the surface), you will have some maintenance costs.
• No matter what type of railing you purchase, You will also need to inspect the railing yearly.

Savings:

• Workers in this scenario will work fastest and be unencumbered.
• Almost no management responsibilities, training, or maintenance (again, if you purchased a good railing).
• Your insurance costs will be lowest and you will have the lowest potential for injury.
• Workers will appreciate not needing to navigate fall hazards - because the hazards will already be prevented.
• There are also ways to save on the initial purchase - we will cover that later.

2. Evaluate the longevity of safety options.

How long will the system that you purchase last? At what point will it need to be repaired/replaced? This will require that you evaluate what materials the products are made from, potential job site damage, and expected lifespan. Here are some examples:

Product Material

A galvanized railing will last longer than a powder coated, non-galvanized railing. A roof anchor that is galvanized will last longer than one that is not galvanized. A wire retractable will last longer than a webbing retractable. A railing that uses galvanized pipe fittings instead of weld points will be far less susceptible to rust - and yes, last longer.

Potential Job site Damage

Railing will typically take abuse much better than other fall protection products, but still need to be chosen wisely. For instance, railing that will be near heavy machinery or the lifting path of a crane, may become damaged. If the railing was welded, the cost of repairs may be significant. If it was a modular railing, the expense can be minimal.

Another example to consider: products made out of webbing (harnesses, some lanyards, some anchor points) will show wear much more quickly than products made out of metal. A webbing retractable or lanyard may be a less expensive option than a stainless steel cable, but will it stand up to the conditions on your job site over the course of the time?

Here are some questions you may want to ask:

• Will the unit potentially be walked on? Will it be used by or around welders?
• Are there corrosive substances that may come into contact with the fall protection?
• Will it be rubbing against any abrasive surfaces?

Questions like these should lead you towards choosing the right material. On the same note, evaluate how the worker will view the particular safety equipment that you provide for him. If you purchase the cheapest harness you can get your hands on, it will probably end up being tossed in the back of a pickup truck with other tools. If you get one that is more comfortable, it may actually find its way to a hook or hanger.

Expected Lifespan

Most active fall protection - harnesses, lanyards, retractables, anchor points, lifelines, etc... have a maximum manufacturer's lifespan of 5 years from the date that the unit goes into service (note the tag that is on almost every piece of equipment). However, some units require extra attention. For instance, most retractables have a 5 year life span, but need to be recertified every 2 years. Vacuum anchor systems typically need to be re-certified once a year. On the other hand, railing will have the longest potential lifespan. A galvanized, modular railing system - with no weld points or ground penetrations - may last 20, 30, 40 years or more.

By purchasing with longevity in mind, you can save significant costs in the long run.

3. Look for alternative purchasing options.

Are there ways to purchase a better system without compromising your cash flow? Some companies have the ability to lease products to you. For example: let's say that you want to purchase a large railing system for a few roofs at your facility. The cost of the railing is 50k. Budgets are tight, so releasing that much cash right now is difficult or impossible. However, leasing the railing over 5 years will allow you to pay a small amount out of your safety budget every month and provide your company with a valuable write off for 5 years. Unlike a bank loan, leasing typically expands your financial resources while offering better terms than a bank can offer you. At the end of the term you will end up owning the products to keep your works safe - without compromising the commodity that is of utmost importance right now: cash.

4. Take advantage of monthly specials and quantity discounts.

Whenever purchasing, ask if there are discounts for purchasing at certain levels. If you work for a larger company with different branches, or even simply know others in the safety industry, network with others to purchase together. Safety supply companies will appreciate the opportunity to expose themselves to other branches/companies and you will potentially save money by purchasing in a larger quantity than usual. Think of it as a co-op for safety.

5. Open yourself to new ideas.

The safety industry has evolved tremendously in the past few years. New technology is constantly being introduced to both the construction industry and general industry. Whether it is new products or old products made safer, lighter, or more user-friendly, there are many opportunities out there for you to streamline and save. Present the specifics of your job site/facility to a safety consultant and see if there are other products out there that you could be using. It is amazing how often people are using the wrong product for the job, or simply using the right product incorrectly. Using the right product for the job will at least make the job safer and more efficient - which is always less expensive than the alternative.

6. Consider alternative building products.

Think outside the box when planning a project. This may mean outsourcing what you would normally do in-house, or doing in-house what you would normally outsource. Let me supply a couple of examples:

Example A

Let's say that you want to build a railing. The "typical" way to build a railing would be to hire a welder/fabrication shop to make one for you. This is true because not every business has a fabrication shop to produce their own, nor does every company have the skilled labor necessary to put it together. One alternative would be to produce a "non-welded, modular railing." Most modular railings will have the same strength of a welded solution, but require none of the skilled labor, permits, planning, time, or tools that a welded rail would need. This often will save you money up front, and it will allow you keep all of the labor expenses in house.

Example B

Let's look at the other side of the same coin. On any job site (both in the general and construction industry), you have a pretty good chance of spotting a "homemade" fall protection solution. From a piece of rope purchased at the local hardware store that is now tied to someone's harness, rebar that was bent to make an anchor point, to a flag line that looks like it was stolen from a used car dealer. I am sure you have seen (and maybe constructed) a non-engineered safety solution. Not all of them are ridiculous, but they all share one thing in common: you take all of the liability of a workers life on your shoulders. Engineered safety solutions absorb the liability of the hazard for you - as long as they are used properly. This is both safe, and keeps money in your pocket. First of all, insurance companies love them - which means lower premiums. Secondly - OSHA loves them - which means lower (hopefully no) fines. As a bonus, in an effort to protect themselves and you, manufacturers also overbuild most solutions to make certain that no one will be hurt because one failed.

7. Organize your safety department.

Let's face it. The most expensive hazard to a company is an accident. Lost time, lost morale, lawsuits, fines, medical expenses, and potentially someone's life are just a few of the ways that accidents affect your business. Minimize and eliminate hazards by being effective and organized when it comes to safety.

• Do regular training,
• keep up to date log books,
• perform daily reminders (toolbox meetings),
• have regular self-assessments,
• keep gear inspected and clean,
• know the regulations and the products available to you, and
• connect yourself to others in the industry who are doing the same.

These are just a few of the ways that you can begin to create an effective, efficient safety culture that saves lives and money.

Safety, for any company, can become an arduous, necessary evil that gets in the way of what you are really trying to accomplish. Instead, it should be a value and culture in your company that minimizes costs, improves morale, and places a sense of value on the individual that can so easily be forgotten. We want to be most concerned for the lives of those around us as well as our own. These were just a few ways to save money in this economy, but hopefully also a few ways to value the wellbeing of your workers - and see that they are all sent home safely every day.

If you want to learn more, please visit our website how far apart can the posts on a guardrail be.